Three-times world racing driving champion Sir Jackie Stewart is no stranger to success. He remains one of Scotland’s most popular and well-known sporting figures – and an ambassador for the nation around the world. Here he talks to Kenny Kemp about winning.
 
KK: Thank you, Sir Jackie, for talking to In The Winning Zone. Our purpose is to talk about being a winner. But you have all the natural attributes of someone who is successful in sport and in business.

JS: Right.

KK: Energy, drive. A risk taker in the past, perhaps not so much now. Certainly commitment to success, all these things you would define as being classical traits.

JS: I don’t think…. I never thought I was a risk taker, first of all. And any risks that I did take were fairly calculated risks. And one of the assets that I perhaps have is, within my culture, that of risk management and the manner in which I think or go about my business.

KK: Sure.

JS: The ability to have good risk management is real benefit. And very few people have it until, let’s say, they are more mature, then they start seeing the risks.  Because I was a racing driver the risks were up front and up close and personal. And, for that reason, I don’t think I ever hid from them. Most people don’t want to talk about ‘What If’ happens, even including death. From my point of view that was something I never shied away from, it was a question of trying to create sufficient removal of downside risks and unnecessary hazards in order to achieve success.

KK: Sure.

JS: And, at the end of the day, although the Latin lover doesn’t want to hear it, passion of the heart is considerably less effective than the clinical mind.

KK: Exactly.

JS: So you can still be a success person, I believe, who can assess the risks and act upon what is the best road to take.

KK: The best options in any given situation.

JS: If I had been a really conservative risk management person, I would never have driven a racing car. Having said that, when I drove a racing car I very seldom ever drove it beyond my limit or its limit.

KK: And in your biography you talk about one of your great campaigns was to improve safety in racing driving. A lot of your friends perished in tragic accidents.

JS: Most of my friends died. But the reason that maybe I survived was that I saw the enormous benefit of having top class people around me and at the end of the day it is a people business. A lot of clever people are somewhat threatened by other people who may even be cleverer than they, and therefore if they want to keep their jobs, they don’t want them around. I would take the reverse view to that. I’m not frightened of them, I need them. And the cleverer they and the better they are, the more quickly we achieve success … together. So I don’t see them as threat. I almost see them as a necessity. Instead of fearing, I revere them.
So, you know, if I’m sitting here today, it’s because I came through one of the most dangerous periods in the history of motor sport without ever drawing blood from my body. But I did it with the very best engineers and mechanics for preparing my cars, therefore I didn’t have the mechanical failures that other people had. When you have mechanical failures you quite often have death. I remind everybody that I only did 99 Grand Prixs. And of those 99, I won 27, so the batting average was very good, nearly 30 per cent, winning.
But I also remind them I have more experience of losing than I have of winning. Sometimes it’s not a question of losing, it’s a question of not winning. And if you learn something while you’re not winning, you put that information together in a way that will allow you next time to win.

I’m a dyslexic. I was very poor at school. And because I was such a failure at school, and, by the way, there are a lot of business people, and very successful ones, who are dyslexic, I suffered. You can suffer low self-esteem because you are abused so much at school in mental terms and you’re not succeeding at school.  You are just so relieved that you actually try harder than most people because you’ve been such a failure for such a long time.
When I started work in the garage serving petrol on the forecourt, there was no self-service in those days, so I made more tips than I did in wages because I was so anxious to be praised for doing it faster and doing it better. Or perceived to be better. So that was fantastic for me to get praise. I genuinely thought I was stupid, dumb and thick, because that was what I was told I was by my teacher. And by my peers, so I had to prove them wrong.

KK: How did you feel returning to racing as a Formula One team?
JS: We started Stewart Grand Prix as a Formula One team, there was a typecast programme which you would go about in order to rise in the ranks. Well, I couldn’t do that way. Because, first of all, I wasn’t that age.  When Mr Ferrari started his F1 team he was a young man and it took him 46 years to get to the best in the world. I didn’t have 46 years. Frank Williams and Ron Dennis at McLaren took 35 or 36 or 38 years. I didn’t have that either. So I had to do it a different way.  I couldn’t have done it the same way as them because logically it would have taken me the same amount of time as them. So we did find more ways of doing it.
We found we had to bring in sponsors and keep them. And because they had been so successful over all these years they had an infrastructure, they had the capital, the reserves in hand. So what did we do? We couldn’t deliver on track because they were beating us because they had more technology, better people, because they could buy better. So we had to deliver better off track; look after our sponsors better, make them feel good and give them more than they expected, even though we weren’t winning on the track. As it happened, we were being pretty well focused on the track because in only our fifth race we finished second in the Grand prix in Monaco. We got a pole position, we got great grid positions. We won a Grand Prix and lots of podiums. So we did pretty well. We actually managed to do it differently and in my case, because of my learning disabilities, it was attention to detail.

KK: That’s a Scottish pernickety trait perhaps.

JS: Good word is pernickety. The Formula One team was part of that. I don’t think it was any Einstein world that I was living in. It was good solid practicalities, excellent execution, very good focus and commitment to attention to detail. And if I looked after the pennies, the pounds looked after themselves.

KK: But you retired then in the early 1970s at quite a young age.

JS: 34
KK: You’d reached the top. You had three World Championships at that stage. What did you see ahead of you? Did you have a career path and plan?

JS: It became very obvious to me that I could, after retiring from motor racing at the age of 34, live until, at least, three score years and ten. That’s long way. That’s more than 35 years. What was I going to do for 36 years? If I did nothing  - and I could probably have done nothing and lived on my earnings and capital if I wasn’t using helicopters and private jets and fancy hotels. Or.. I had to take an interest, otherwise I would have got bored. So before I retired – and I think this is a good Scottish element and trait – I had a fear of losing my money. So before I retired I got continuing contracts with the Ford Motor company, the Good Year Rubber Tyre company, with Elf-Aquitaine, which was then the biggest company in all of France. And also with ABC’s Wide World of Sports in America. Now that gave me a guaranteed income well in access of what I could spend without touching my previous gained capital, if you like. I thought I had five years of being Jackie Stewart. And then there would be another ....

KK… new kid on the block.

JS: Yea, you know the King is Dead; God Save The King? Now, what happened if the reverse occurred? Because I was so keen to do well on television, I communicated well with people and instead of being used only in the Indianapolis 500, or the Daytona 500 or the Monaco Grand Prix, or three or four very big events, I ended up by doing 25 programmes a year, prime time American television. So, the voice was different -- for the Americans. Maybe the look was different because I was a different personality.

KK: Did you get voice coaching to soften your Scottish accent?

JS: None at all. No, no. So, I was instantly recognisable in America by the end of it. And I was with them for 15 years and during that time I was doing a great number of television commercials.. which in America pay a great deal of money. Every time I appeared on television I was getting better known, whether it was the Winter Olympic, the Summer Olympics or the Gathering in Braemar. Whether it was the Luge or the Bob in the winter sports. Whether it was golf, the British Open or Royal Ascot or Grand Prix races. And I was being used on television for commercials. Which are sometimes even more powerful because they are repeats, repeats, repeats. I ended up working for 40 years for the Ford Motor Company - Goodyear for 17 years. Elf for 12 or 15 years. ABC 15 years and I stayed on with Rolex and I’ve now been with them since 1968. That’s 38 years. And I’ve been with Moet et Chandon for 37 years.
I’m a Gemini – there’s a Gemini side of somewhat, not flippancy, but ‘I’ll go out and get it done’. Flair, if you like.  Then there is another side of me which is robust, not I would say conservative, but very high awareness of the removal of downside risk. Or unnecessary hazard. So I am now with RBS. Another robust global company that I see to be on the way up. Now the fifth largest bank in the world. An amazing achievement.

KK. Can we talk about Scotland? And your perception of Scotland.
 
JS: Well. First of all Scotland’s greatest export is not whisky or anything else. It’s people. There are more successful Scots around the world than even perhaps in Scotland because they have wanted to go out into the big, bad world and travel. Why have they become more successful than other people? I think the Scottish mentality has a lot to do with it. I think the breeding has a lot to do with it. Deep down they are very serious people and they are very determined people. And focused with it. All the good successful Scots that I know are really focused people.

KK: I suppose the reason that many of them have to go abroad to pursue their careers is because that is where the market is. Scotland is a very small nation and you can only achieve a limited amount.
 
JS: Yes, but … there’s really successful Scots within our own country. Having said that, a lot of them do go because opportunities come up and they are wooed by other people. Historically, we’ve had a very good educational system and that’s been a great advantage. We have a history of great engineering and thoroughness. I also think integrity by the way. The Scots have high values.
KK: Yea.

JS: I see it as being an enormous advantage being Scottish.

KK: Your other interests such as shooting... Is that still an active part of your life?

JS; Yes, I still shoot. I haven’t got my shooting school at Gleneagles any more. A good friend of mine passed away and another who was working as partner has retired. We’re getting to that age. It really wasn’t a big enough business for me to be going back and forward every month. I had to be sure that it was working well, because if your name is above the door you’ve got to be sure.  My name’s not above the door anymore because if I’m not running it, I don’t want my name above it.

KK: How would you like to be remembered?

JS: Mmmm, I suppose as a successful racing driver would be one thing because it’s my sport. I’ve got a fantastic family unit. So my family would have to come into it. I’ve been married to Helen now for 43 years. I’ve got two grown-up children both of whom are successful business people. Well-balanced and married and I’ve got eight grandchildren. Ehem.

KK: You’ve a reputation for getting things done then?

JS: People know ‘Jackie will get it done’. And there is that confidence starting off. And from my own point of view that dependency within myself of having to deliver. But to do that, I need to have a team of people. I mean, I won 27 Grand Prixs but in fact I was only part of the team that won. And the reason was the car didn’t break down. To finish first, first you must finish. There’s no point in winning the fastest lap for the pole position. I only won about 19 pole positions in my life but I won 27 Grand Prixs because I spent most of the time setting the car up to win, not just to do it for one lap. So you need good people to do that. So my dependency is in the infrastructure.

KK: Has sport given you a balanced view of life?

JS: I think the great thing about sport is you seldom get intoxicated by your own success. Because you know that tomorrow you can be beaten and you know here you are today celebrating success and you’re up on cloud nine. The next day you might be out testing a car and you’re fourth or fifth fastest. And then you go to the next Grand Prix and somebody beats you.

KK: I can see the parallels there.

JS: There’s another thing about winning. You know winning is not enough. Not a bad statement. Winning is not enough. Lots of people can win. They can win for a short time or win an event. Winning anything. Even winning the World Championship is not that difficult to win one. What is more difficult  -- and it is in a different class altogether – is long-term success, to be successful. To be successful is much more than being a winner. Because nobody wins all the time, but it is to be able to come back and do it again.. and do it another time. And sustain it. To sustain success you’ve got to continue to deliver and you can’t rest on your laurels.
 
JS: But everything you do, you’ve got to do it well. Because at the end of the day, and going back to that self-reliance, there’s nobody else to blame … because you are on your own.
 
KK: Like being in a racing car. Because although you’ve got all the other people doing things for you, you are in there by yourself.

JS: That’s right. At 2 o’clock in the afternoon when the red lights go off, you’re the only one. There’s was a great saying by an Australian racing driver - in those days it was the flag. When the flag drops, the bullshit stops. You know, you can pretend a lot of things, you can pose, you can tell everybody how good you are. But when the flag drops, you gotta deliver.

KK: Will we see a Scottish world champion racing driver again?
JS: I’m sure again you will.. but when I’m not sure. There’s not any immediate likely lads in the position where you could turn round and say he’s very good potential David Coulthard was but at his age now that might be difficult.

KK: Well,. Thank you very much, Sir Jackie, for your time.

JS: No, it’s my pleasure.
 

KK

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